Look, for APD to be competitive in the market place it needs to offer competitive pay and benefits, top notch training, and most importantly a working environment where officers are respected and where they have the backing of their department. This contract may be worse than any contract that has come before for the simple reason that it divides the rank and file and sets officer against officer - "a house divided against itself cannot stand."
The Almighty Alcalde has a history of offering a new contract to the members of the Albuquerque Police Department in the year before a mayoral election. Our Eyes suspect that the mayor's pattern of contract negotiation has more to do with election year politics than with compensating Albuquerque's finest.
If you take a few moments to review the comments from various 34's on this website, you can't help but notice a growing animosity. The division is not between the city and the rank and file, but between officers. Don't think for a moment that this is a coincidence. There's only one person that this particular division benefits - the Almighty Alcalde himself.
(Sidebar)Unfortunately, the general public is caught in the middle. The most experienced officers are being encouraged to leave the department while their replacements are inexperienced officers fresh from the academy. The imbalance is likely to cost us all and don't think for a moment that the mayor and his cronies won't be busy telling us things like "this package shows our commitment to public safety" (ABQ Journal - Subscription).
We found it somewhat humorous that accompanying the article about the approval of the new APD contract was an ad for Las Vegas' Metro Police. Just who do you think they were targeting with the timely ad?
(End Sidebar)
Here's the long-term problem in a nutshell. Marty can't and won't achieve his goal of 1,100 officers by front-loading contracts to benefit younger officers. More experienced officers will simply be leaving the department once their pay flattens out and departments like Metro will be making APD's officers an offer they can't refuse. Who can blame them? Remember, today's young officers are tomorrow's old salts. Under this contract, APD's experienced officers will be other department's new recruits - all at our expense.
60 comments:
honest question; of what importance is longevity?
Aside from the obvious growth in experience; a growth curve that flattens out in normal populations.
Why should someone with 15 years experience, earn very much more than some one with say 10?
These guys are so stupid...Already officers have left the dept because of the new contract. It does not do any good to bring cadets in the front door when many more officers are leaving through the rear door. I tell you this APD administration is stupid!
Further, morale continues to decline. The work place has never been worse between the rank and file. This translates into more internal problems within APD. Complaints will contine to rise as will employee/management issues.
There is no end in site foor the next 18 months.
This mayor and chief have to go!
Those officers that can leave should leave. If you really want to beat the system, wait your 3 months and come back as a rehire. You will double your money and will then get the big raise.
Think about it, this is much better deal than the bonus! You will make about 40k more a year takeing this route rather than the bonus. Do the math.
When Ron O is no longer APOA President let's see what great inside job the mayor and 5th floor give him for selling us out. You know he can't work the field because of his injury and Chief Schultz fires all those people. Lets see how they take care of him!
Others with injuries that were treated different, should watch and get ready to sue!
I still can't beleive that the APOA pushed this contract through knowing it was going to hose so many of our seasoned officers!
What's more interesting is the fact that the Union President would not produce a copy of the contract we were voting on. I wonder what else is in there that we are going to lose that he has not told us about. He was just in too much of a hurry selling this contract. He is a flat out liar, and he lied to all the troops!
The Union hosed us again for their own personal gain. He better not get a sweet position inside somewhere. He needs to come out to the field, take calls and work with all the officers he hosed, if he has any balls to look them in the face!!!!
Knowing him, he will crawl in a sweet hole and hide for the rest of his career.
If the veteran officers truly feel this contract leaves them out...as expressed at last week's meeting....then show up in numbers at the next city council meeting.
FOR ONCE JUST DO IT! If 300 of you show up this thing can be turned around but it comes down to showing up!!!
I find it appalling that our long term and experienced officers are treated so badly. I agree our police force is severly understaffed - but I also have personally witnessed the attitude exhibited by those inexperienced officers towards the people they are sworn to "protect and serve."
My dad was a police officer in Southern California in the 70s and I learned to respect the badge - but I was also treated with respect, compassion and facts were ascertained before a judgment was made. I wish I could say that this remains true today - but as our long term officers dwindle so do thoses ethics.
The veteran officers need to quit griping and file an injunction on the entire contract procedure. There is no way a judge would let stand a vote that excluded officers who were on days off or out of town, there was no formal contract to look at and review, etc.
Your only hope is to go to district court and get them to stop this stupidity. That way the city and the APOA will be forced to do things the correct way in the future.
I just wonder if our APOA attorney would advise any of his criminal clients to sign a plea agreement without actually reading it? Of course not, so why does he allow this to happen to us?
To: of what importance is longevity?
Let me ask you. What company, corporation, buiness, public or private doesn't reward career employees??
So who would stay in an organization for 20 years plus, be required to have continuing education every year, have their lives threatened often and not expect to be rewarded?
Senority, experience and loyalty should count for something. Not everyone becomes a cop only to get raises by promoting. If this were so, where would rookie cops get their mentoring? And not every cop wants to retire and come back. I'd rather work at Wal-Mart.
Not every cop wants to climb that ladder and sell their soul to the devil. Most of us have integrity.
I see a bunch of rookies coming in staying for the required years of the signing bonus and then going to another department with better long term benefits. And belive me there are many of them out there. Check out sites for Aurora Co, Henderson NV, and the list goes on & on.
Above poster, well said! HAHAHA of what importance is longevity! Any other person working in the private sector is ALWAYS offered years of experience and it's offered through their pay!
Yes the contract wasn't completely fair to the senior officers, but it is not the senior officers leaving. It is the 2 to 10 year officers. Everyone with the exception of some Lts are getting some type of raise. At a time when these privaye companies are laying off workers, it would have been disatrous to vote this down. We would have lost all public support. There is almost nothing we could do to counter the negative media if this contract had been voted down. We would have looked like complete greedy fools.
Stop blaming Ron O. and the union. If anyone is to blame for contracts not going the way we want them, it is all of the officers who never go to union meetings and get involved. In addition, there are plenty of officers who are complaining but they do not even belong to the union. For those of you that fit this description, stop complaining and get involved!
Stop Blaming Ron!!! This is what they said about the last lousy contract. We should all withdraw from the union that would take away all their power. The TEMTSTERs would take us in a heart beat. They wouldn't let Marty MArty and FRED sell us out!
The last post is the best one I have heard yet. Stop complaining and wanting a free ride. All of us answer calls or have tremendous case loads. This packege was twice as big as AFDs. Stop whining.
"all of the officers who never go to union meetings and get involved"...I hear that all the time. I've gone to the meetings...they are depressing and they suck. Get involved with what? Show me some leadership with something to get involved with and maybe we'll follow...
Commanders, Lts; play with snakes and you get bit.
You will never learn with Ray & Marty will you?
To previous poster...how about you run for a board position...volunteer your time...and help someone besides yourself??? We are all part of this....and in it together!
It was a complete stab in the back.. no one knew about the contract and boom theres a vote and thats it.. nothing posted....where the hell are our union reps.. havent seen one to our briefings EVER
Like the AFD Contract, I don't think so! Half of your PD was screwed major! The Mayor does not like you APD officers for some reason. We all came out with a great contract, no one was left behind, our union saw to that! Also, we got the longevity you pay fools gave up. We would fire your union people!
Thanks
AFD
This is simple....Everyone got a raise....some people more than others. The problem is that some seasoned officers are upset because other people got a bigger raise. What the complainers seem to keep forgetting is that at year 18 you get $5000, 19 is $10k, 20 is $12.5k ....and 21 plus is $15k...all tax free into your deferred comp. Geeeee....do the simple math....$5k-$15k per year..isn't that a $2.50 to $7.50 per hour raise???? on top of the raise you already got. If you are at 15 years or more right now...please stop complaining...and start collecting your free money on top of the raise that your co-workers just voted in (within the term of the contract you will recieve your Officer Retention $$$$).
If you think that filing an injuction is a brilliant idea...remember...you are doing nothing but hurting other officers. This department is not in need of recruiting Sgts, Lt's, or veteran officers....that would be the reason that the city made concessions... to the tune of several million $$ over the last contract, with the intent of a contract to enhance the recruiting package.
So everyone can keep complaining about how money someone else got...or you can take your raise and shut your pie hole!
Hey 5th floor bone head. Many of the senior officers are not yet ready to get the officer retention money and will have to wait several years. Just because you're a fat cat raking in the money does not give you the right to hammer those that do not make your $106k per year for doing nothing! Must be nice. So don't come preaching to us with your high salary. You guys know you pulled a fast one! So stop trying to sugar coat it. You also knew that most of the senior officers were off on the day you suddenly came out with the contract and voted. None of these officers were even aware it was voted on. So, stop with your BS already. We know what you did and how you did it!
At the bid you all will be on five eights. Your so called APOA Attorney fred mouer knows it the union knows it and are all keeping it a secret. As a senior officer that can leave in a year, I ask you, who are you going to call when this disrupts your life ? Things like getting your kids to school, child care, getting you wife to the ariport on time for her business trip, or getting your husband to work because his car is broken down ect. Are you going to call your sergeant or lieutenant and explain that you have to come in late or leave early or the book is full but I have a family emergency and need off. IF I were a sergeant or lieutenant , you know the ones you screwed for $$$$$ the answer is simple NO. As a senior officer dont any of you ask me for help, the answer is no.
injunction would hurt some officers..what do you think this contract is. in order for me to show any raise I now have to work overtime. I like working 80 hours and that's it not anymore. the one thing that..my longevity....shoot. ill make more if I quit and come back as a rookie. why weren't we given time to think about the contract? why couldn't everyone voted...what can be done now?
I thought that incentive was:
$2500 at 18 years
$5000 at 19
$7500 at 20
$10000 at 21
$12500 at 22
$15000 at 23
Review this and two things come out, first this money does NOT go toward your pension. The city decided to be cheap and not include this in the pay package that goes toward your PERA retirement. Second, because of that it makes no sense to stay past 20 years. You are money ahead to retire and start drawing your pension and pick up another job. Do the math.
to the senior officer that does not want to help anyone...stop making this personal..be a proffessional..i lost longevity too, but i'm not going to threaten other 34's over this...again, b a proffessional..you are acting like this was a conspiracy between the union, younger 34's and the city..stop your crying..
What ever happend to putting the department's goals above all to serve the good of everyone and ESPECIALLY, above your own self interest!
It sure would be nice if Chief Schultz and his Deputy Chief's would adopt this philosophy. In addition, the APOA Union should as well!
Remember, TRUST is the glue that holds an organization together.
APD Officer's have absolutely NO TRUST in the Chief, his Deputy Chief's or their Union. This is a serious travesty of justice! How will this organization survive?
So to those of you who feel they have been cheated out of a decent pay raise, let me ask you this. If the contract benefitted you instead of being front-end loaded for younger officers and a larger (future) force, you would be okay with that??? Would you have voted "NO" because the younger officers got less, hell no you would'nt have, each and everyone of you would have voted yes. I've heard rumors of leadership in the field vowing to take it out on the younger 34s. Very mature!!! Why don't you vent against the 5th floor and ole Marty instead!!!
Ron Olivas may be a nice guy, but under his regime he failed to take care of the veteran officers, threw the Captains to the curb, screwed the rehires at every chance he had and blew off the Sgt's and Lt's. I hope someone is keeping score when the time of reckoning comes. Why would this lame union (Executive Board) allow the City to take away the longevity pay from the veteran officers to fund more pay for the entry officers? Answer: To assist in recruiting new blood and force the veteran officers out like they have for the last 5 years. On the face of it, this makes Marty look good.
Lawrence Torres (Marty's ass wipe and APD traitor) is running circles around these clowns.
Don't be fooled, I spoke with Olivas and he is the kind of guy who smiles at you while he is putting it to you, he sounded like a used car salesman. He will rank in history among the Lawrence Torres', the Jeff Remingtons and the Rudy Vigils.
No matter the reason Olivas gives, the bottom line is he took food from my family's table and the officers who got hosed should be pissed.
APOA needs to hire professional negotiators that have some balls and will not sell out segments of the membership. Someone that knows what they are doing! Bring back some of the old union negotiators who retired and have no connection to the city, until that happens we will continue to have inept results without real experience in our union. A fucking disgrace!
Ron O can't even be found, he is in hiding! He should be, as we won't forget what he has done to us!!!!
It seems to me there were old APOA officers who tried to warn us about Lawrence and what was coming. We didn't back them up then and they left, so why should they come back now and fix the mess they tried to warn us about? It seems to me we (the current APOA members) are going to have to figure this one out on our own.
To those babies that are bitching, whining, and crying.....leave the department already. You probably weren't an asset anyway just a self serving individual that was only concerned with "ME, ME, ME"!
APD will go on without you.
To those babies that are bitching, whining, and crying.....leave the department already. You probably weren't an asset anyway just a self serving individual that was only concerned with "ME, ME, ME"!
APD will go on without you.
Anyone seen our Union President, Olivas?
Anyone seen our Union President, Olivas?
If chavez is allowed to run for mayor again, we need to come together and campaign against him. We can't endorse him, that is crazy, we complain and bitch but now we need to act. We all thought Galvin was bad hu, not now I guess, we just keep slipping downward with Chavez and Schultz
before we can change city hall, we need to change from within. We need to start we our union first.
The APOA needs a new attorney first and foremost. Then they need a complete revamp of the rules that govern us. The biggest change is that no contract will be brought to a vote unless the members have a complete contract to review. Further no vote will take place until after the members have had 7 days to review the proposed contract in full. Members who are not in town at the time of the vote will be allowed to vote in absentee.
You would think this would be a no brainer, but I bet the current folks in charge of the APOA will come up with all sorts of reasons why this can't be done.
The APOA must change!
If it needs to change then run for a specific board position and make the changes. Until you do that you, and everyone else complaining, are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Geee I guess the current APOA board members are so in bed with the attorney and Lawrence that they will not listen to the members requesting change.
From the post above all the current board members will say is vote us out if you want change. We will not listen to nor do what our members want.
It is a very sad day for the APOA. They used to be a great organization.
Ron Olivas Torrez stabbed all the senior officers in the back just like his brother Lawerence Torrez did! Olivas, we will never forget what you have done to our families! Then you let them ram 5-8's down our throats! Thanks Olivas Torrez. We have to take matters into our own hands with out any help from the APOA Union. Ron Olivas Torrez, I hope our blood money was worth the deal they cut for you!
Olivas, I hope you can retire when Schultz and the Mayor leave, because we won't forget what you have done. Most of us are in management positions that you screwed. We will wait! You won't even bother to meet with us when we asked the Union for help ref the upcoming bid. You sold us out! Your time will come. better hope that injury heals.
Ron, you can run, but you can't hide!
gotta love management that threatens their subordinates anonymously,,,,,oooohhhh i bet rons so scared hahahaha dumbasses!
A few of us veteran officers, Sgt's and some Lt's are thinking of packing the next union meeting this coming Thursday, and giving this lame board a piece of our mind. Some of us have been trying to see Ron at the APOA office, but he is MIA, the word is he is in hiding
"They" always point out that nobody ever shows up to the meeting...
Maybe you should have been going to meetings prior to the contract?
You got to be involved all the time, not just when you are angry.
Really, were they discussing elements of the contract at the meetings? Was there an open forum to which address the negotiation committee? Was the negotiation committee discussing progress on financial and non-financial elements of the contract?
I agree that we could all benefit from more active participation and attendance. However, dividing everybody is not the way to do it. If that was the intention, well done. The city always opens the door long enough to throw a grenade into us. This time it seems like you guys held the door open.
its always fun hearing people bitch after the deed is done! no one seems to care when the planning is under way. they only wanna get involved when its too late.
Wow there sure are a bunch of cry babies who don't do anyhting for themselves on here. You come on and cry about how horrible your job is yet you don't ever do anything to help yourself or your department. Constant threats about "we're waiting for you".... What the hell is that? That is this departments problem, all anyone ever does is stab one another in the back! You all need to work together to make this place better. Lots of you complain about the chief, yet you never do anything but cry on here or try to act like you're so tuff yet you never do anything. Quit acting like such babies and start doing something to help yourdelf instead of only writing your "intimidating" blogs!!
GROW UP & QUIT CRYING
Instead of whining on this blog why don't you go to the APOA meetings and see what they were doing. A bunch of lazy BS whiners is all most of you are. You got what you deserved because you let other people control your life and career. I do not feel sorry for any of you. Get involved from the beginning or smile and eat the shit sandwich that someone else prepared because you were to lazy.
Do you need a toothpick?
Oh yeah, RIGHT! Easy for you to say that people shouldn't whine and that we should all partake of the "shit sandwich" you sound like you're WAY WAY old school and I don't just mean by 10 or 15 years. Bet you haven't been a police for 30 or more years the way you gripe about us! Think I'll just pass that shit sandwich onto you, cuz sounds like you be wantin' it playa!!!
If. "Get involved or you get what you deserve;" is old school then count me in. The above poster sounds so immature.
Hey poster maybe you can give us more EXCUSES for why you are allowed to whine. Maybe your mommy and daddy didn't hug you enough. Grow up and do something about your life, stop letting others control it.
AND STOP WHINING!
"Really, were they discussing elements of the contract at the meetings? Was there an open forum to which address the negotiation committee? Was the negotiation committee discussing progress on financial and non-financial elements of the contract?"
That's the truth, notice Mr. Stop Whining doesn't address any of these issues. So yeah get involved, just don't do anything.
If you would have been at ANY of the meetings and gotten invovled you would have found out.
You are trying the old,"nothing is my fault game" it doesn't work. Take ownership of something in your life.
I'm not playing any game, I'm asking some very simple questions. You prove my point which is all your talk is rhetorical and you're not willing to engage the issue with anything of substance. You talk about ownership, show me some ownership and defend the contract with logical arguments instead of more empty rhetoric and vacant assumptions.
There is no defense for the way this contract was presented to the troops.
There is also no defense to continually hear the bitching, but for the last year the APOA never had enough officers show up for a real meeting.
So back at you, defend your complaining about a contract while you do not participate in the organization that neogotiates the contract. You have to learn one thing, you just can't pay dues, you have to be involved.
You're still not defending the contract you hold so dear.
Your still not taking responsibility for not getting involved sooner.
Read my lips the contract is not defendable! The way the APOA acted on it is not defendable. Your whining and not getting involved to change things is NOT DEFENDABLE!
"the contract is not defendable!" Thank you.
Your actions in not getting involved in the APOA is not defendable!
Why don't you just be honest and admit this is a skewed contract because you resent the guys on longevity and sold them out because from your perspective they don't go to meetings so who cares about them.
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