Nov 8, 2011
Say What You Mean, Mean What You Say! (We Mean You, Chief Schultz)
Chief Ray Schultz recently gave interviews to the news outlet in reference to his "new" recruiting techniques and ambitions. Before we go any further, yes this is the same chief that two or so years ago gave an order to get to 1100 officers regardless. This is the same Chief Schultz that was reversing the decisions of detectives from The Recruiting and Background Unit and ALLOWING subjects into the academy that had been previously flagged. This is the same Chief Schultz that allowed cadets UNDER 21 years of age to enter the academy, just to make that magic number. Well Chief Schultz, how did that work out for you? According to his interview with KRQE Channel 13, Chief Schultz said "What we will be doing is hiring better, more qualified folks”. Let us get this straight, so you admit you have knowingly hired less than qualified folks? The Eye thinks this is a straight confession and admission of guilt and could be used in the many pending lawsuits against the City. Chief Schultz also stated (according to KRQE), "The changes include trying to recruit less aggressive and less confrontational officers, as well as looking for people who are more compassionate, better problem solvers and those who can more easily de-escalate a situation." Again Chief Schultz, are you saying your current police officers are aggressive and confrontational? Are you saying your current police forcce is less compassionate and by your own admission, your police department are not good problem solvers and have a harder time de-escalating a situation. WOW! Chief Schultz not only did you throw every officer under the bus, you have yet again managed to undermine the entire Police Department. The Eye can not understand why Chief Schultz didn't stand up for the officers or the Police Department. He might as well just write a blank check to every Plantiff in EVERY lawsuit against the City and against APD. It is not the officers that need correction, it is the administration. APD administration needs to be completely demolished. This department needs LEADERS, real leaders. Your fate has been sealed Mayor Berry, the moment you went back on your word and decided to keep that liability of a Chief around, your fate was sealed. The Eye has a suggestion for you Chief Schultz. Instead of admitting everything YOU THINK is wrong, why don't you stand up for the officers YOU HAVE TRAINED. Why can't you look the camera in the eye and state "If you point a gun at an officer YOU WILL DIE". Why don't you look into the camera and tell the citizens that had it not been for the actions of the suspects, they would never have been shot. Each and every person shot by APD chose their destiny, each and every one of them chose to play Russian Roulette with the police. Sometimes they won, sometimes they lost. It seems Chief Schultz is now LETTING THEM ALL WIN!
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Hey Brett: are you under that bus the chief was driving? Eye has this so right the chief just added ammo to defense cases. Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the camels back, from carrying all that cash to Joe Kennedys office.
It is nice to see people don't forget. Wasn't there a big scandal over that, where the commander disagreed with the "pushing through" of candidates and was threatened with removal? Didn't the entire academy staff stand behind their commander on it. This chief seems to have a very short memory. You see, when you are a true LIAR, and you tell a LIE, you have to always keep track of it, or you will get all caught up in it. When you tell the truth, it always stays the same. No matter how much you twist, and contort something, the truth is the truth. It will always set you free. This chief needs to walk away from his mission of self reclamation and resign before the truth comes out. He really should quit. I won't say while he's ahead because he isn't. He's just treading the rapidly rising waters now. His next blunder is going to destroy any credibility the APD has left, and HE caused it.
I could not believe this story when I read it. I as a police Officer have no honor. I wish our Chief would stand up for us, and not let the media push us around. It's getting hard for us Officers on the streets. People hVe no respect for us any longer. I guess it's time to leave and find a department and CITY that will back it's Officers up.
I don't expect him to look in the camera, and say anything supportive at this point. I would expect that a ranking official would look into the camera, and at least state the truth. The twisted words, and disinformation is disheartening. The officers of APD truly do care about their city, and it's citizens. There are alot of great officers doing good things on a daily basis. There are plenty of officers out there who have compassion, and concern for the people they serve. Officers every day show restraint, and solve problems by professionally de-escalating situations. You never hear about that.
Why is someone allowed to play political head games with the citizens of this city? And why are they allowed to treat employees like people with less rights than the rest of the citizens of this country?
It seems that the administration of this city has not had the displeasure of experiencing enough litigation at the US Supreme court level to learn from it's mistakes.
Why??? Because these cases usually are settled due to the fact that that they are wrongfully brought against employees of this city. The city attorney has known it, and paid out, or the courts realized it, and paid out more. The city is routinely destroyed in district court, and the city attorney's office at least has the common sense to realize this and not appeal. That is why it doesn't reach the state or US supreme courts to set case law.
All this new hiring of a different kind of officer is going to do is present a whole new set of circumstances, issues and problems to deal with out there on the street concerning these officers. Everyone is different. There needs to be diversity at all levels within a police department, and I mean that mentally, physically and racially. People are all different. So must be the officers to deal with the problems out there. There are niches in law enforcement for a reason. Those that choose to be less agressive can seek out investigatory or inside positions. Those who choose to deal with counseling issues can seek domestically related positions like child abuse, and domestic violence. Those who want to be aggressive are needed to seek out dangerous fugitives, active criminals, and deal with crimes in progress. You are never going to get around that. To say that you want to hire one type of person across the board is veiled discrimination based on one's mental outlook, and that is wrong. Unless you are mentally unfit, choosing someone that is mentally fit for the position is a requirement. Choosing someone who is politically fit is a disgrace.
God Bless all APD officers on their road ahead.
People are retiring. they won't be controllable anymore. Alot of dirt is going to come out.
Commander Dan Cafferkey should be appointed chief of police. That man lived APD. The administration couldn't hold a light to his integrity. He saw the writing on the wall. It was a shame when he retired. APD lost a man who believed in APD. If this new mayor had any kind of a sense of leadership, he would start interviews for chief, and make this guy the first on the list.
I would think that any truly honest officers would resign rather than be affiliated with a PD that by its own Chief's admissions is broken. Every day that you do not speak up only tarnishes your reputation. The public now fears and has no trust in anyone carrying a badge of the APD.
WOW!!!!! What a disgusting photo on Facebook of APD officer Neil.. Are the tattoos on her arm real or just for Halloween? I guess she is one of the MANY under qualified recruits we got during the recent Fast & Furious hiring era... Wonder if she will be a PIO soon??? I think if she showed up to take my report I would ask for another officer..
In order to recruit and make the "magic" number of 1,100 officers, Schultz made it a priority to recruite and give preferential treatment to ex military and reduce entry level qualifications. Schultz and APD got exactly what it recruited: highly agressive personnel and trained them with a shoot to kill mentality. Big hiring incentives were offered such as a housing bonus while reducing qualifications such as not requiring college degrees. The emphasis on military experience is incapatable with police training. The military mission is to defend the country and kill the enemy while police work is to serve and protect the public. Schultz has now acknowledge he created the problem and now he wants to fix it, so he descredits the very Department he buildt over the last six years, just so that he can hold on to his job. Berry is a fool for keeping Schultz.
All Ray Schultz cares about is Ray Schultz.
I was told that former DC Calloway was allowed to have his indiscretion with a former physical welnness female,and not held to account as the rest of us would be?
Schultz needs to grow a set and stand up to the press. You point a gun at a cop and you get shot. You pull a knife on a cop and you are going down, you hit a cop and you go to the hospital. Very simple. If the offenders complied with the officers orders thee ould be fewer complaints. But there will always be those that must test the mettle of our officers.
Too bad, this last statement given to the media is a mockery to the City of Albuquerque and all the officers who wear the badge. I know of several officers who are looking to lateral to BCSO or Rio Rancho PD. This is a shame.
When you side with criminals who have no credibility rather than your own people who lay their lives on the line every day, THERE IS SOMETHING REALLY WRONG!
GOD BLESS THOSE WHO GO IN HARMS WAY SO THAT OUR FAMILIES ARE SAFE!
HIRING SECOND GUESSERS AND YES MEN ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE JOB DONE.
SOON THERE WILL ONLY BE OUTLAWS IN ALBUQUERQUE.
Once again, the very few dictate to the many. Stand up and speak out against the few. How many officers are there and how many Chiefs? Do the math. Get angry and get heard. You have dirt? Get with the other hundreds of officers who do also and start spilling it! Screw you Ray Schultz! FMB!
Everyone. Kim Swift was and probably still is Chief Jim Breens girlfriend. She received a Aggravated DUI in Nob Hill earlier in the year. Mysteriously the case was dismissed. She actually crashed her car and hurt someone while she was drunk. I have been watching this case waiting for a dismissal as Im sure the officer probably didnt show. More Berryland/Schultze antics. Ridiculous........
The Chief is creating nothing but hatred and animosity within the ranks.
HERE IS ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE OF CHIEF SCHULTZ ATTACKING ANOTHER POLICE CHIEF, AND CRITICIZING HIM AT AN OPPORTUNISTIC TIME IN ORDER TO PROMOTE HIMSELF.
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/on_assignment/police-weapons-auction-violates-law
THIS GUY HAS NO SHAME! HOW MUCH LONGER DO WE ALL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS HYPOCRIT THROWING ROCKS FROM HIS GLASS IVORY TOWER???
How much straw can the camel take?
I cannot wrap my head around what this chief is getting away with.
To hell with the ACLU. Bring in Amnesty International.
Everyone lets go to the APOA meeting and adress some issues there. Joey is so up Chief's ass he probably can't breath to well.
About the recruiting years ago and Suazo there was a lot rumors out there and not a lot of facts. The above posts that everyone was behind Suazo and chief changed his mind about a transfer not all true.
To Anonymous on Nov 8 at 6:03:
You don't have your facts straight. There has been no college requirement for some time. We would have about half the force we do now if APD required a college degree. In fact a good majority of APD's administration got their degree while on the job. While I think a more educated police force would be good, it isn't necessary. Police work takes a lot more common sense than book sense, and I know and worked with many fine officers both with and without degrees. Out of my first squad, the majority had degrees. And you know, that didn't make a lick of difference between those who were always in IA and those who weren't.
As for bashing on military careers, you are obviously not aware that the military imposes discipline on people and helps them get their crap together. Any civilian HR manager or recruiter will tell you that former military people are desired if they meet all of the qualifications. You cannot equate a military theatre to the streets of Albuquerque so simply as saying they are trained to kill, therefore will kill citizens. It's a lot more complicated. I don't think all the desk jockeys or support staff from Kirtland are these cold blooded killers you refer to.
The problem was indeed when Farty Marty demanded an increase in the number of officers, knowing damn well it hadn't worked before. But his career depended on it so Ray was under the gun and they overlooked things that would have otherwise disqualified many applicants. The college degree and military background had nothing to do with this.
the EYE asks "Again Chief Schultz, are you saying your current police officers are aggressive and confrontational? Are you saying your current police forcce is less compassionate and by your own admission, your police department are not good problem solvers and have a harder time de-escalating a situation."
He is right on each count, even though he helped create this problem. It is not just Shultz who is the problem, APD is rotten from top to bottom.
The recently publicized persecution of an innocent man, Conner Otero, only bolsters Chief Shultz’s statements.
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/on_assignment/cop-error-creates-hell-for-innocent-man
Ms. Levy’s feeble excuses in reinstating this man’s good name only demonstrates how skewed the system is in the prosecution’s favor.
The public servants involved here took an oath to uphold the people’s constitutional rights, their ambition seems to have clouded their judgment to the point of making them unfit to serve.
Berry, Shultz, and Levy are leading us all into the abyss.
Shultz goes after his own officers. He teamed up with White to go after Costales. Did not give Camacho his due process and went after Ahrensfield after his testimony in the Camacho trial and has lied about it. He is like a coach that has bad mouthed his team and have left them out to dry. When is a vote of no confidence is going to happen?
Hopefully he will be arrested for his perjury, but in the very least untruthfulness at his deposition should result in the least Termination.
It seems that everyone is going to have their day in court with this person, and his ways. Litigation might take a while, but the truth will come out. People, especially juries, are not stupid, and they see right through bias investigations. And this guy has a very long list of people standing in line with litigation against him.
Levy isn't going to do shi(* on that Otero case unless the media keeps on her. Levy is a different story because her record or lack thereof speaks for herself. Everyone would be shocked if they knew how much the city has paid in fines due to Levy's lazy ass work ethic. No wonder she fits in on 5th floor with the rest of the slugs.
To Anonymous on November 9 at 9:03:
Sounds like some one struck a chord a little to close to home and the truth. There was no bashing of the military. APD did reduce entry level requirements and offered all sorts of financial incentives including housing bonus, tuition and sign on bonuses to reach the 1,100 level. During selection interviews, ex military were always given given preferential consideration because of their training which was assumed to be beneficial to a para military organization such as APD, which often times it is not. City's HR raised concerns at one time that too much emphais was being placed on military backgrounds, but Schultz refuse to listen.
As for the Smarty Marty remark, what is true is that Police were given signifcant raises at the expense of other city employees and departments. During the 12 years Chavez was Mayor, never was the Departments budget cut, but always increased each year. Under Chavez APD became one of the best paid, best trained, best equiped Departments in the County, but you call him Smarty Marty. Those of you who voted for Berry have gotten exactly what you deserve: you got Darren White, salary reductions, loosing take home cars which you had to fight to get back, union bashing and budget cuts. Are we having fun yet???
Hey Brandenberg, nice press conference on the vice op but you forgot to mention that one of the Officers involved will also be on trial. You can try to keep his credibility a secret but defense will subpoena him and tarnish the whole case. What about Murdoch? APD should did their homework before jumping in a pile of shit there hu? Way to go there Shultz.
To Anonymous on Nov 10 at 5:20 pm:
The truth? You were indeed bashing the military in terms of recruits with military recruits compared to those with college experience. I would be proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone willing to do the job. But I would expect to find more of those people come from the military rather than college. I would love to see some real evidence that officers with military experience cause more problems than non-military. Until then, we are stuck with the City HR's opinion. That and $1.58 will get you a cup of coffee. If you have ever dealt with those bozos you would quickly realize they know nothing about the job of being a police officer, but they are good making up lots of paperwork.
As for the Farty Marty comment, I give him credit for things he did such as making the city a nicer, cleaner place, and improving police pay. Given that the police (and fire) are more valuable than other city departments, I am okay with them making more than the mechanics on perpetual break at the yards, or the 5 guys watching one dig a hole. I think most of the public is okay with them being paid more. Not to mention that if Marty wanted to achieve his goals of increasing the size and quality of the police force, paying them more would be a logical way to attract a good quality recruit. As for the rest of Farty Marty's stay at city hall, he turned it into his own little empire where people were quivering at his ever wish and corruption followed. All that you complain about under the Berry administration coincides with a weak economy. Those cuts have been pretty minimal given the larger financial situation that is here 5 years later. Berry has done a good job dealing with what he was given. Or are you one of the Farty Goons that had your salary doubled for the last few months after he lost the election so you could double your vacation cashout? I don't remember getting such a deal. Must be unethical favoritism by Farty Marty, the hallmark of his stay at city hall. I would much rather serve under Berry than Farty Marty, because at least he tells you where he stands. He bashes the unions because they are run by imbeciles. Or are you referring to Diego's tenure as AFD union president as a good thing, with his cozy butt-buddy relationship with Marty and the corruption there? The silence is deafening isn't it?
Marty Gilmore for Chief !!!
It's funny how people go to the county commission meeting and ask for an investigation and get it. People go the city council meeting to talk to deaf ears.
According to the attorneys for the victims of APD shootings, NONE of the shootings were justified. I repeat NONE of the shootings were justified. Also, shooting someone in the back is not self defense.
Sad to say, that all this talking on these posts isn't accomplishing anything to change the conduct of the Chief, his closest comrades, the Union Officials who seem to take good care of themselves on the backs of their membership. Politics and corruption aren't easy to stop because you don't know who you can trust. However, I see that a lot of you seem to know the real scoop on things within the APD. Someone enlighten me on how come nothing is being done?
A lesson in leadership for Chief Schultz and all his YES administration. When your officers do something good give them the credit they are do. When something goes wrong a leader takes the blame and corrects the problem.A leader does not attempt to make themselfe look good by blaming everyone except THEM. I had the honor of serving with APD for 24 plus years. I served with the best officers on the planet. I was a sergeant for many of the years. See the difference between you and me chief: I RESPECTED MY OFFICERS, I RESPECTED MY OFFICERS ABILITIES,AND I ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY. I warned you Mayor Berry ! I know officers can not stand up and say what is right because every aspect of their life is controlled with an IRON HAND of a chief that cares about one thing and one thing only HIMSELF . This is my opinion you are welcome to yours. As always I will not respond to anonymous comments.
To S. Sgt. Paul J Hey,
Kudos to you for speaking out so profoundly against this leader and is followers. You may be the one person who can make something positive happen for these officers. Heard many goods things about you too. I have read your posts and you tell it like it is. However, from what I have read about this chief, it appears to me that his recent remarks and actions are definitely an attempt at damage control to actually make him look like he is doing a good job with the APD. That will be short-lived as his record will show otherwise. He is fooling only himself. May take some time, but I believe the truth eventually does come thru.
Good luck to you S.Sgt. Paul Hey !!
I agree a lot of the shootings were not justified I think the City got into a groove of justifiying all shooting and there is no going back. In saying this, I am going back more than seven years before schultz was here.
Sad, this is why people are leaving. Word is that Sgt. Martinez and Smith are looking to leave in a middle of a class because of the politics and no brass in their chain supporting them. Brass will run over anybody they can to get promoted and this is why APD is in the gutter.
Yep, APD has a history of supporting questionable shootings, and frowning on officers using non deadly force in deadly force situations.
People are not feeling very good about the current situation and what this administration is doing to it's officers. Things are what they are though... and the administraton of APD is going to find out the hard way that you can't make something what you want it to be by lies and manipulation. The facts are the facts.
The likes of Schultz and Feist are going to cost this city millions.
Don't let anyone fool you into thinking Schultz is the only one behind teh masterminding and manipulation. DC Feist's heavy role in things will be coming to light very soon.
There is also a lack of spine in some of the lower chain also. Especially the ones being "groomed" for future commands roles. People like to leave a legacy behind so that their corruption can still flourish through their contacts and teh favors owed. You don't have to look hard to see just who these cowards are, where they are asssigned, and just what they are doing to people to stay in the good graces, and get what they want.
There will be mass exodus for those who are able to leave. Sad situation. In the last five years there have been tons of expereienced, hardworking, honest Commanders,Detectives, and officers who have left the department. Sad situation. I pray that APD gets back on track. They need a new chief and NOW. Chief Schultz has had his chance.
Yes, shooting someone in the back can be self-defense. Go read up on use of force and justification and case law for justifiable homicide (self defense) the charge that is presented to grand jury. Then come back and make comments. And anyone who has been knows you can indict a baloney sandwich in a grand jury proceeding. Most all of the shootings were justified. Just because there are way too many attorneys lurking, waiting to take any case without merits does not mean it is valid. And just because people have their loved one shot doing something stupid (ie using deadly force to threaten a police officer) doesn't mean it was unjustified just because they loved their family member.
I would caution those within both APD and AFD to reconsider retirement because of what appears to be a lack of leadership either from the appointed Chief(s), the Mayor, the CAO or all 3. My reasoning is based on the fact that Mayor Berry is more than half way through his 4 year term and some of his very own appointments within his Administration have abandoned him. His Administration looks nothing like it did when he first took office. The reason for this is some of those that worked for his campaign and those that helped shape his campaign have all left for alot of the same reasons that have been written about on this blog... lack of leadership and or the unwillingness to listen to sound resoning.
I end with this. To the Bernalillo County Democratic Party. DO NOT ALLOW another Democrat to split the ticket come election time i.e. Chavez/Romero. Without question Marty Chavez would still be Mayor if this had not happened.
To the APD members and or all unhappy Republicans find another Republican to run against Berry i.e. retired APD Sgt. P. Heh or other thus spliting the "R" ticket.
To the members within APD/AFD who are currently in bed with the current Chief(s)in charge just remember this. You have turned your back on the majority to side with the minority, the majority are taking notes. All of you will be summarily reminded of your actions over the last 4 years if and when Berry loses the Mayoral election of 2013.
This situation reminds me of an old saying.
"One day you're the one picking the grapes to make the wine for the king, the next day you may be the one inside drinking the wine!"
p.s. Get involved in your political parties, volunteer and get involved.
To November 11, 2011 @ 10:53 am:
Once again, there was no bashing of the military. However you did show your total contempt for all other city government employees and your own self righteous sense that you are better than other city employees. What was posted is that Schultz and APD gave preferential treatment to ex military because they wanted a more agressive police officer. APD training then emphasizes a "shoot to kill" training which has resulted in a more aggressive force and getting away from community based policing and problem solving officers. Now Schultz wants to change completely the type of people being recruited and hired as cops. The point that was being made is that Schultz has now decredited the very department he built over the last 6 years. You go off the handle and state the "police and fire are more valuable than other departments" and police deserve what they are paid, even at the expense of other Departments. Further you say that all that Berry has done to damage the Department can be attribited to the economy. You then try and decredit all that Chavez really did for the Deparment. Given the tone and nature of your comments, you have proven my point: APD is being viewed as aggression without thought and a pure sense of entitlement and self importance. Go ahead and vote to re-elect Berry and maybe he will bring back Darren White to finish the job of destroying APD. But then again Berry has Rob Perry who is carrying on where Darren left off.
To November 14, 2011 10:07:00 PM MST:
I am not an APD employee nor a city employee. I indeed value police and fire service more than others. I would prefer them to respond when I need them, and value that over having my garbage picked up weekly, have fresh mown grass in the parks, or a 311 system. All of those I can do on my own.
The statement that APD has "shoot to kill" training is ludicrous. I would suggest signing up for the Citizens Police Academy to learn a little bit about what training APD receives. Some terms you appear to have never heard: standard defensive response, center of mass, use of force continuum. Fact is APD gets the same training as law enforcement across the country. The reason APD shoots so many is simple; they respond to the actions of criminals. Yes, when you threaten a cop with deadly force they become a criminal (if they weren't already). It's pretty simple, low education and socioeconomic status equal more crime. NM is great for low education and poverty, so is it any wonder APD shoots more people? Besides, most of these officers came through on Marty's watch, and didn't he, in your words provide the best training to APD in the country? All of APD employees get the same training?
As for all Marty did for APD, I don't deny it. But remember the only time Marty did anything for the department was for political gain. Don't forget when he ran for mayor after his first go-round in the 90's he talked about his great raises to APD. Except it wasn't as big as he claimed. He was using it politically, like everything else.
To November 15, 2011 8:34 am
"New Mexico is great for low education and poverty, so is it any wonder APD shoots more people." Really?? Really??? Now who is being ludicrous. You are saying being poor and uneducated means it is justified to take you out if you commit any crime and perhaps even no crime. Lets throw in menatlly ill while your at it. The training is "two to the chest, one to the head" which is "shoot to kill",which is justified so long as it is defending against deadly use of force. But shooting a person in the back who is carrying a plastic spoon is difficult to justify, even for a "citizens police academy" graduate who knows all about standard defensive response, center of mass and use of force continuum.
Marty didn't do crap for APD he gave the commanders big raises and shit on the rest of us. He laid off city employees who were single parents and didn't blink an eye. He covered up his own domestic and also faked a back injury that costs the city bank. Lets not forget all the personal contracts he did with his buddies, i.e., Lawrence who retired with good benefits.
I never voted for Chavez and I never will. Chavez did good, are you smoking SPICE.
Perhaps some of the folks here should read the PERF report. It states that even with a decline in assaults on APD officers the shootings involving APD officers continued to increase. It also pointed out that only 22% of the APD force was involved in something like 60% of the shootings. A few bad apples are spoiling the bunch and Ray's answer is to toss you all under the bus. I said it before and I'll say it again, if truly honest officers don't start speaking up; they are just as guilty. The blue wall of silence must be breached.
What is going on with this blog? No new material? 11th floor got your tongue?
That's all Sgt Paul Heh went after was DWI's so he could make boat loads of OT. He was not as great as some of you idiots think he was. It was all about the OT cash for him. Don't believe, look at how much DWI OT he has over all those years!!!!!!
To Anonymous November 15, 2011 9:09:00 PM MST:
Poor and uneducated = more crime = more attacks on police = more police uses of force, including deadly force. You are so anti-APD you will read into anything to try and make a point. I did not suggest that it is okay to shoot people based on socioeconomic status. You are so hell bent on thinking these people did nothing but go for a morning stroll and get accosted and shot by APD. Like dealing with the mentally ill, there is no way address your delusions by being part of them.
You also missed the part about standard defensive response. It is 2 shots, center mass. Not the chest. Center mass. That gives the greatest chance of hitting the target. The shooting is done to stop the action which causes harm to the officer or other. A failure drill is if the person does not stop their violent action. That death is a result is the failure to have a perfect Star Trek stun beam. Bottom line: do not do things (criminal activity) that require you to be shot to stop you! Refer to Chris Rock's video if you have further questions.
A person who threatens violent action (shooting someone) who then takes people hostage (the victim called 911 reporting he was armed and holding them hostage) then steps outside with an unknown object in his hands and refuses lawful commands to not re-enter the house is at risk (and was) the subject of careful application of deadly force. That he died was not the point, it was that deadly force was used to prevent him from harming others, based on the officer's knowledge at the time. This is a textbook example of justified deadly force where the officer himself is not threatened. Spoon or not, the suspect caused the response which was justified.
To Anonymous November 18, 2011 @ 9:49 AM MST
Far from being anti-APD and totally respect and admire police work. However, two shots center mass is a shoot to kill policy which is justified for self defense. Try cooling off, step back, and try reading what you wrote as if you were an average layman sitting on a Jury in a civil rights lawsuite alleging exessive use of force. You arguing that the person died was not the point but to protect others is the point shows your lack of sound reasoning. The necessity of the killing is precisley the point to the general public and any jury. Saying the suspect caused the police reponse and therefore justifies the killing is saying police cannot make any mistake under such circumstances and can go ahead and be jury, judge and executioner.
The first year Schultz took office he visited a class at the APD Academy. A cadet stood up and asked Schultz if he was the kind of leader that stood behind his men or the kind that threw them under the bus to save his own skin. He couldn't even give a CADET a straight answer back then, nothing has changed. Just sayin'
To November 19, 2011 7:54:00 PM MST:
I am only saying what is taught and used in defense of officers. That is you don't shoot to kill them, you shoot to stop them.
Personally I think shooting (if warranted) so well that they die is the best way to stop them. The distinction however is important, because if you take it as a "shoot to kill policy" how could you justify shooting them anywhere other than the chest or head? Yes they can die, but more likely they will live. So if the policy must be (in your words) shoot to kill, then the officer presented with only a stomach, arm or leg could not shoot. According to training, such an officer would indeed shoot center mass of the target (arm, leg, stomach) with the intent of stopping them. In such a case they would be less likely to die, but still justified.
Shooting the gun out of the hand would be equally effective without necessitating the offender's death. But it is not reasonable or very reproducible. Shooting center mass is the easiest under pressure, and very effective.
Meanwhile, two officers are fired for using non deadly force on someone who was threatening them and reaching for a gun and the bad guy has only a few scrapes. And there was a fully functional loaded pistol that the bad guy dropped. What is wrong here?
Across the board, something is wrong. Bad guy is armed. Bad guy is wanted for a slew of violent felonies. Bad guy is wanted for murder. Bad guy was driving a stolen car almost killing people while running from the police. Bad guy is under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Bad guy reaches for a gun in his waistband. Bad guy refuses officer's orders. Bad guy runs into a heavily ccupied hotel while fleeing police. Bad guy physically resists. Officers know who this guy is. Bad guy is caught by the police. Officers provide the video of the incident. Officers write what they did in their report.
Chief throws officers under the bus after spinning his own conclusion / lies of the incident in order to make himself look good.
What a shame.
Nothing is going to change until the chief and his corrupt group of morons are brought before an investigative committee and every single one of their indiscretions are exposed through the exhibition of facts and witness testimony. Then and only then will this miscreant be dealt with appropriately. Organize and take action. Leave the APOA out of it because they are in bed with the chief and city. Get some courage and do what is right. Camachos civil case is in December. Chief Raymond Schultz is testifying. Something tells me it's not going to be pleasant on the stand for him. Information is the key.
RE Nov 21 at 3:51......well done. Exactly right. And let's not forget to thank all those who played in the spin:
Jason Peck in IA
Ryan Buckner (hatchet man)
Paul Fiest
Ray Schultz
Yea, Maybe all of them can shelter under the ol, I was just takin orders boss, excuse. Cowards.
RE Nov 23 at 5:00 a.m.
Don't forget to include Miss Deputy Chief Beth in the group !!!!
Who is Camacho and what is his law suit about?
His lawsuit is about Chief Ray Schultz violating his right to due process and wrongful termination, something the chief knows all about. I believe that Ahrensfield stated that chief Schultz lied in his deposition for this case. Probably why he is seeking immunity from it. Seems he is trying very hard to get out of testifying. You know untruthfulness is a fireable offense.
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